Following the my report on the children of Llywelyn Fawr and Joanna and answers they acquired, We checked once again from genealogical users dedicated to Gwladus Ddu. While it is real, given that numerous genealogists mention, one to regarding the lack of unique proof in some manner, the term of the mommy from Gwladus Ddu have to will still be ‘unknown’, I found no need to transform my personal conclusion one to her mom is Joanna and never Tangwystyl.
She leftover no hassle by Alexander II
That after that supply about their pupils ‘s the following conceptual about ‘Leaders and you can Queens from Britain’ a respected publication, authored by Oxford College Drive, page 106:
‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, young man regarding Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you may Marared, child away from Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate child out ABD’de bekar Ukraynaca kadД±nlarla tanД±ЕџД±n of Queen John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
Basic, i want to spend tribute so you can Sharon. Their search to possess ‘HBD’, ‘Falls new Shadow’ and you can ‘The latest Reckoning’, accomplished through to the introduction of the internet, is it is an excellent. Almost that which you she has written in one trilogy stands intimate test now.
To show that it is not merely me personally you to definitely believes so, allow me to offer that genealogist who’s a beneficial lover of Sharon: “I am extremely partial to Sharon Kay Penman’s guides. As they commonly strictly biographical, I’m warmer depending on their unique work to ‘fill in the newest blanks’ (because of the quantity of lookup she of course placed into her courses), than in actually pointing out certain genealogical source which i came round the during my research (I understand we-all stumble on present this way). In order to anyone who has not even comprehend their unique really works, I recommend they extremely highly, especially if you need a getting for just what lifestyle try for example 800 years ago.”
Pursuing the questions posed because of the Beth, Suzanne and Sandy particularly, We embark on contrasting the newest label from Joanna’s mother (described hereafter, to have ease of resource because ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) by way of an affair to your in order to-be-queen John. After powering up many blind alleys, generally through looking to reconcile this new chronology of 1 into most other, I’ve paid on which employs. Really don’t point out that the things i have written was definitive in every profile otherwise setting, and truth is that people will in all probability never be sure off their title.
(a) The new illegitimate Joanna, daughter out-of “Clemence,” is actually undoubtedly born of wedlock –– as it is ended up of the Honorius III’s decree saying her legitimate when you look at the April 1226, even if in the place of prejudice towards the queen or realm of The united kingdomt (we.e., giving their particular no claim compared to that throne). The fresh decree, which was transcribed about fresh, unpublished Check in from Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), states inter alia you to “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” which, I’m informed, translates as “Queen John of The united kingdomt, whenever single , fathered you because of the an unmarried woman.”
This proved to be significantly more state-of-the-art than simply I might enjoys think possible!
It indicates Joanna have already been produced zero later on than just 1189 whenever John hitched Isabella of Gloucester. Their unique mommy, “Clemence” are probably French otherwise Norman, because the proof in the patent moves away from John’s reign implies that Joan try put from Normandy to England in December 1203, to prepare getting relationship to help you Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (come across lower than). Joanna passed away when you look at the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate child Joan, because of the Isabella off Angouleme (married to help you John into the 1200 at many years several!), came into this world at the Gloucester to your twenty two July 1210 (see the Tewkesbury Annals about Goes Show, vol. 36.i, p. 59; the fresh Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty-six.iv, p. 399; therefore the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to have John’s Leadership, pp. 124, 143). This is the Joan which after that married Alexander II regarding Scotland and you will she died within the 1238, certain weeks once Joanna (this could make up a number of the dilemma clear between your several female).